Tag: Interview

Miller Restoration: 3rd Time’s a Charm

Legal matters, business strategy, and life perspectives from the mind of a non-attorney.

 

Built to Sell Radio is a weekly podcast for business owners. Each week, host John Warrillow asks a recently cashed out entrepreneur why they decided to sell, what they did right and what mistakes they made through the process of exiting their business.

As an Exit Planning Advisor, I was excited to discover this podcast based on its topic category alone.

I was thrilled when I listened to an episode to find that John Warrillow is an absolute gem as a host.

My jaw hit the floor when the podcast responded favorably to my request to write a monthly article based on their episodes.

It’s the thing we haven’t been able to give to our readers. That is, the perspective of business owners who have gone through the rigors of exiting a business.

After all, I can talk about Exit Planning until I’m blue in the face.

I can tell you the best practices for Transferring Ownership to Children.

I can even explain Private Equity like I was speaking to a 7 year old.

But when it comes right down to it, you don’t want to hear about this stuff from some hot-shot advisor. Nope. You want to hear it straight from the horse’s mouth.

Let’s do it.

EPISODE 128 (February 16th, 2018)

Episode Summary:

Scott Miller owned Miller Restoration – a company specializing in residential fire and water damage restoration – for 12 years before ultimately selling the $3 million-per-year-company for a 3.5x multiple in 2018.

On two previous occasions, Scott tried – and failed – to come to terms on a deal. The meat-and-potatoes of this episode comes from Scott’s dialogue as he reflects on those failed attempts.

Clip #1:

John Warrillow: “You shared earlier that you had gone through a couple of ‘false starts’ with potential acquirers. At what point did you start to think, ‘Hey, it’s time to sell.’? Was there a triggering event?”

Scott Miller: “There were a couple different phases of that. Earlier on, maybe about 5 years into the business – I listed it. I just didn’t like it anymore. I felt like I needed to do something else with my life. I had a 1 year listing agreement with this person and he didn’t bring one potential buyer.”

“For a few months I was angry that he wasn’t bringing me anyone. But then I thought to myself, ‘You know what? I have a good team, and I’m making a good income… This isn’t so bad.’ Maybe this is just for the best. And I didn’t relist it.”

“I never disengaged during that listing period. That was really important. I had kept growing it during that time and identified the things that I didn’t like to do and delegated and hired so that I didn’t have to do those things.”

Analysis:

 

Do you buy or sell that Scott Miller made a critical mistake when he delegated tasks that he didn’t like doing?

 

SELL.

 

In the last 2 weeks, I’ve heard 3 different business owners reflect on the reasons they began reorganizing the structure of the business, building systems and processes, and delegating tasks. All 3 identified a failed attempt to sell their business as the main reason. Somebody literally told them, ‘Hey, I’m not interested in the business unless you’re coming along with it.’

 

As an Exit Planning Advisor, listening to a business owner talk about delegating and hiring is music to my ears. It is easily one of the top 3 things that all business owners can do to increase business value.

 

In Scott Miller’s case, he didn’t do it because someone told him to, and he didn’t do it to create business value – he did it because he was plain sick of doing certain things every day. In the end, his reason for doing it doesn’t matter. The fact that he began delegating at this point was absolutely instrumental to the eventual sale of the company for a 3.5x multiple. 

 

Continue reading “Miller Restoration: 3rd Time’s a Charm”

An Interview with Patrick Furman

 

Bachelor of Arts: West Virginia University

Juris Doctorate: University of Pittsburgh School of Law

Married: Yes; Tiffany

Kids: Yes; Mariah, Kyarra, and Alysia

Practice Area: Estate Planning

DiSC Profile: DC Style

 

Summary

“People with the DC style prioritize CHALLENGE, so they want to explore all options and make sure that the best possible methods are used. As a result, they may be very questioning and skeptical of other people’s ideas. They also prioritize RESULTS, so they’re often very direct and straightforward. Finally, they prioritize ACCURACY. Because they want to control the quality of their work, they prefer to work independently, and they may focus on separating emotions from facts.” – Excerpt from Pat’s DiSC Workplace Profile.

Key words and phrases: Explores all options, skeptical, direct, accurate, separates emotions from facts.

Dang. That’s good stuff right there. Definitely the kind of person I want handling my most important affairs. Here is what I will add: I would imagine that many people with this personality type tend to come across very dry, arrogant, or even rude because they have so much knowledge about topics that their clients – well – don’t. Pat manages to overcome that. I don’t know if it’s just a natural gift of his or if it’s something he’s worked on over the years, but he really has this great way of being relatable and knowledgeable, without making you feel dumb for not knowing nearly as much as he does.

 

Interview

KOD: “Thanks for doing this, I really appreciate it.”

PDF: “Are you kidding? It’s my pleasure!”

KOD: “So how long you been doing this for?”

PDF: “Being an attorney?”

KOD: “Yeah.”

PDF: “Since 1997. No wait… ’98. 1998.”

KOD: “So almost 20 years. Take me back through your journey, because if I remember correctly you started out in undergrad at West Virginia and then went on to Law School at Pitt?”

PDF: “Uh-huh“

KOD: “How did you end up here?”

PDF: “Took a wrong turn in Indiana.”

KOD: Laughs.

PDF: “What had happened was… My parents moved to WI at some point while I was going to school to work for Badger Mining. After I finished school, my fiancé decided we should follow them out there. So we did. And – funny story – the night I took the bar exam she told me she didn’t want to get married.”

KOD: In shock.

PDF: “But luckily I passed the exam on my first try, fell in love with the area, and met Tiffany somewhere along the way. It all worked out in the end.”

KOD: “Wow. Amazing how life goes.”

KOD: “Who’s your favorite NFL team and why?”

PDF: “It’s the Steelers. I grew up in Pittsburgh, around the greatest team that’s ever existed – the Steelers of the ‘70s. I met pretty much all of them in one shape or another – “

KOD: “– How did you meet all of them?”

PDF: “I went to training camp every year with my dad and we would wait around between their dorm and the field. A lot of the guys would stop and talk or say hi or whatever. It was really awesome. I always remember during one of the camps, Theo Bell, who was a wide receiver, took my hat and wore it around.”

KOD: “That is incredibly cool. What a great memory!”

KOD: “If you could go back in time and relive one Steelers moment, what would that be?”

PDF: “Super Bowl 40 when we beat the Seahawks. I was actually at that game, and it was a close game until the end. Really fun to be at. The stadium was mostly Steelers fans because it was played at Ford Field in Detroit, which obviously is pretty close to Pittsburgh. Just a great time. That would be a fun one to relive.”

KOD: “So as a die-hard Steelers guy, do you hate the Eagles?”

PDF: “Yes… I hate the Patriots too… … …”

KOD: “You gonna watch the Super Bowl this weekend?”

PDF: “Yeah. As a football fan I have to.”

KOD: “Who are you cheering for?”

PDF: “The Eagles. I want to see the upset. Also, this Eagles team is a lot more likeable than some Eagles teams of the past. They are the underdogs. If they win, it would be a miracle. So I’m good with that outcome.”

KOD: “Date 1 – Marry 1 – Punch 1: Tom Brady, Bill Belichick, Rob Gronkowski.”

PDF: “Ummm… Probably marry Tom Brady cuz he has all that money. Punch Belichick because we can’t beat him. And date Gronk because he would be a lot of fun.” Laughs.

KOD: “Truer words never spoken. Gronk would be fun to hang out with!”

KOD: “Did you watch cartoons growing up?”

PDF: “I was a big Scooby-Doo fan growing up, but I hate it now.”

KOD: Confused. “What? Why do you hate it now?”

PDF: “I don’t know. I think it’s the special appearances that they throw into the show. The cameos. Like all of a sudden KISS would show up on the show. It’s just annoying to me now.” Laughs.

KOD: “What’s your favorite ‘90s jam?”

PDF: “Can I pick an album?”

KOD: “Sure.”

PDF: “Radiohead: Ok Computer. Best album of the decade.”

 

Here you go >>> Radiohead – Airbag.

 

KOD: “How many pennies do you think would fit into this room?”

PDF: “None because there shouldn’t be any pennies. They should be discontinued.” Laughs.

KOD: “A penguin walks through that door right now wearing a sombrero. What does he say and why is he here?”

PDF: “He says, ‘I’m Sidney Crosby and I’m going to give you season tickets to the Pittsburgh Penguins games.”

KOD: “Wow. Greatest response ever. I love it.”

KOD: “Tell me about 1 person outside of your immediate family that you love.”

PDF: “Hmmm… Kevin Eismann – Epiphany Law.” Laughs.

KOD: “Oh brother. Barf.” Laughs.

KOD: “Why are you an attorney?”

PDF: “I like helping people. Usually they will come in with some sort of problem that they don’t think can be fixed, and when you can fix it for them it’s the best feeling.”

KOD: “What is one thing that you are proud of yourself for?”

PDF: “My kids. It sounds sappy maybe, but I’m really proud of the way they act. They are really well behaved and I’m proud of them for that.”

KOD: “Pretend I’m thinking about hiring you as my attorney to do some legal work for me. What do you bring to the table? What can I take to the bank? Something you know you will deliver on every time.”

PDF: “A great amount of knowledge. I’m going to genuinely care about your problem. And we are going to find a solution.”

KOD: “Pretend I’m a young attorney, fresh out of Law School. Tell me why I should apply at Epiphany Law.”

PDF: “The environment allows you to be yourself. It allows you to feel comfortable. And you get genuine support from others.”

KOD: “How is that different from other places?”

PDF: “It’s usually not a ‘real’ team at other places. People might work in the same building, but nobody is going to go out of their way to help you. It can be pretty cutthroat. Like, you’re on your own, figure it out. That sort of thing. It’s a lot easier to be successful at Epiphany, just because the culture is different.”

KOD: “Give me one thing that people miss or do incorrectly a decent amount of the time when they try to do Estate Planning on their own?”

PDF: “They gift things to their kids without understanding what the consequences really are. So… they don’t understand capital gains, or they don’t think potential liability they are creating by gifting.”

PDF: “The other thing is that when people create a trust or will on their own, they often do it with just one possible outcome in mind. For example, they create the trust assuming that the husband will die first, and the wife second, and that’s it. They don’t take the time to think through all the possibilities. So they plan it all for one scenario, and if things work out that way it will be fine. But if, for some reason the wife dies first, the plan doesn’t work.”

KOD: “That’s really smart advice.”

KOD: “Alright lets finish this off with a little rapid fire.”

KOD: “Cookies or Cake?”

PDF: “Cookies.”

KOD: “Cats or Dogs?”

PDF: “Dogs.”

KOD: “Coke or Pepsi?”

PDF: “Coke.”

KOD: “Superman or Batman?”

PDF: “Batman.”

KOD: “Blonde or Brunette?”

PDF: “Blonde.”

KOD: “Horror or Comedy?

PDF: “Comedy.”

KOD: “Bud Light or Miller Lite?”

PDF: “Absolutely neither.”

A huge thank you to Pat for taking some time to chat with me! A super smart guy, and clearly has an awesome personality! I am a bit skeptical of his Coke/Pepsi response, however. If you look closely you will see that he was drinking a Diet Pepsi during our interview…

Thank you once again to all the readers of this blog. [email protected] continues to march on! To subscribe to our weekly content, you can enter your email on our homepage. You can also follow me on Instagram (@kelton.official), where I regularly post links to new blogs, as well as random pictures of my life.

An Interview with Sarah Coenen

Bachelor of Arts: UW – Stevens Point

Juris Doctorate: Valparaiso University School of Law

Married: Yes; Corey

Kids: No

Practice Areas: Business Law and Estate Planning

DiSC Profile: C Style

Summary

“People with the C style place a high priority on Accuracy. Because they want to ensure superior results, they tend to analyze options rationally and separate emotions from facts… they’re uncomfortable with quick or risky decisions and prefer to take time to make an informed choice.” – Excerpt from Sarah’s DiSC Workplace Profile.

Undoubtedly, you have to take Personality Profiles with a grain of salt, but COME ON… What else are you really looking for in the individual who is responsible for drafting your legal documents?? Sarah is an absolute tactician. Laser-focused. And for her age, she is a fountain of knowledge. Without question, she is one of the people I most admire in the office. Sharp and humble. It’s a dangerous combination. The kind of person that people will sleep on because she doesn’t sing her own praises, but trust me, her star is rising.

Interview

KOD: “Thanks for making some time to do this, what’s your billable rate? I’m trying to figure out what this is going to cost me…”

SMC: “We’ll put this on Epiphany Time, don’t worry about it.”

KOD: Laughs. “Well I appreciate that. I’ll do my best to get you some good PR out of this.”

KOD: “First question: What were you like in High School?”

SMC: “Very quiet and reserved.”

KOD: “Did you do pretty well in High School?”

SMC: “Yeah, I always did pretty well… Except for Calculus. I hated it.”

KOD: “In High School, did you know you wanted to be in law?”

SMC: “Yeah.”

KOD: “At what point did it become a desire for you?”

SMC: “When I was 12 years old I wrote a book report on Sandra Day O’Connor—“

KOD: “—Who is that?”

SMC: “She was the first female Justice on the US Supreme Court. She inspired me.”

KOD: “What was your favorite cartoon to watch growing up?”

SMC: “Rugrats.”

KOD: “Favorite character on the show?”

SMC: “Tommy Pickles.”

KOD: “You’re a new addition to the crayon box. What color are you and why?”

SMC: “I’ve been told before that I’m a yellow crayon –“

KOD: “—What shade of yellow? Like a gold or a soft yellow?”

SMC: “Are you telling me that this is the 64 crayon box instead of the 8 crayon box?? Jeez. I guess I would say more like a standard bright yellow. Like a sunny yellow.”

KOD: “Why?

SMC: “I try to always have a positive disposition and attitude toward my work and my life.”

KOD: “What’s your favorite ‘90s jam?”

SMC: “Everybody by the Backstreet Boys.”

 

Pause. Here you go.
Resume.

 

KOD: “How many pennies do you think would fit into this room?”

SMC: “1 Trillion… No 2 Trillion.”

KOD: “A penguin walks through that door right now wearing a sombrero. What does he say and why is he here?”

SMC: Laughs. “He says, ‘Where am I?’ and he is here because he is lost and is having an identity crisis.”

KOD: “OK, enough with the crazy questions, let’s get a little more serious.”

KOD: “Tell me about 1 person outside of your immediate family that you love.”

SMC: “I would say my cousin Miranda because she is like a sister to me. I can always go to her with anything. She is two years younger than me, but she has a lot of wisdom. And she brings a sarcastic tone to conversations that I really appreciate.”

KOD: “Why are you an attorney? Other than your inspiration from Sandra Day O’Connor.”

SMC: Laughs. “I enjoy the logical process. I enjoy helping people. And attorneys get a bad rap sometimes, so I accept and enjoy the challenge of changing that narrative.”

KOD: “What is 1 other career that interested you in the past?”

SMC: “When I was really little I wanted to be a firefighter… But I thought about teaching for a while in college.”

KOD: “What is one thing that you are proud of yourself for?”

SMC: “Wow, that’s a hard question Kelton.” … “I guess I’m proud of myself for not giving up all the different times I could have on my way to becoming an attorney. Being rejected. Undergrad. Law School. I just kept going.”

KOD: “You got rejected for Undergrad and Law School?”

SMC: “Yeah. So for undergrad, I really wanted to go to UW-La Crosse but I got wait-listed. That ended up being a blessing in disguise though because UW-Stevens Point was amazing. And then for law school, taking the LSAT was really hard. I had to take it twice to improve my score before I got into Valparaiso. And it’s really hard for me to talk about it, but let’s just say I didn’t pass the Bar on my first try. There were a lot of times I thought about giving up but I didn’t.”

KOD: “That’s amazing. I’m glad you didn’t quit.”

KOD: “Pretend I’m thinking about hiring you as my attorney to do some legal work for me. What do you bring to the table?”

SMC: “I am always upfront and honest with my clients. I like to think that I’m a pretty nice person to work with. And you’ll get a good product.”

KOD: “Pretend I’m a young attorney, fresh out of Law School. Tell me why I should apply at Epiphany Law.”

SMC: “Epiphany is a very unique environment in that – even though we have a ‘boss’ and managing partners and things like that – there isn’t the hierarchy that you find at most other firms. We are all willing to help each other and there is no “elitist” attitude that says ‘I don’t need you’ or ‘I’m better than you’ –“

KOD: “—Why is that a good thing for a young attorney?”

SMC: “Because you don’t know as much. Law School tries to prepare you, but there is no substitute for real world experience. Being here, I was able to learn a lot, very rapidly, because people were willing to share their real-world experience with me. The culture here helped me to have confidence even when I didn’t know all the right answers. I knew I had amazing people in my corner to help at any time.”

KOD: “Do you have any advice for someone that is in Law School right now?”

SMC: “Wherever you intend to practice law after you are done with school, go to that area during your breaks and make connections in that area the best that you can. Meet with attorneys, judges, business owners. Networking is absolutely essential and that is one thing they don’t teach you in law school.”

SMC: “Also, learn how to talk to clients. Clients ARE NOT stupid. They just don’t know the law like you do. It’s on you to learn how to explain things without coming across like you are arrogant. You have to learn how to explain things in a way clients can understand and relate in order to be successful.”

KOD: “I’m a new business owner. I don’t think I have any legal work for you… But I would like to establish a relationship with a good attorney because that seems like a smart thing to do. What should I do?”

SMC: “Call. You should absolutely call. I’m not going to try and give you any advice over the phone, but there are a few basic questions that I can ask to help me figure out if we should meet or not. You’re not going to get a bill for the conversation. I won’t push you into anything. We’ll figure out if we need to meet, and either way you will feel better knowing that you now have someone in your corner when you need them.”

KOD: “Give me one thing that people miss or do incorrectly a decent amount of the time when they try to do Estate Planning on their own?”

SMC: “Language. A good example of that is with a Power of Attorney. Power of Attorney’s can be ‘springing’ or ‘immediate’, and depending on how you word the language, you may be unintentionally giving someone else control over your decisions right now.”

KOD: “What is one thing that a new business owner might forget to do?”

SMC: “If someone sets up their business entity on their own, the State does not require them to provide a draft of their bylaws / operating agreement. So, if it’s not required, there are a lot of times when people just don’t have them altogether. Those documents are essential in laying out the fundamental aspects of how the business is to be run. It helps to protect the business owner when they have those documents.”

KOD: “How does it protect them?”

SMC: “If someone sues the business, and that business owner isn’t abiding by the fundamental rules of their organization, an attorney may be able to Pierce the Veil. It’s extremely easy to Pierce the Veil if that business owner never made fundamental rules to begin with.”

KOD: “Last question: Date 1 – Marry 1 – Punch 1: Lord Voldemort, Napoleon Dynamite, Austin Powers”

SMC: “Ugh…” … “Punch Lord Voldemort, Date Napoleon Dynamite, Marry Austin Powers.” … “Can’t I just punch all three?”

Thank You

A huge thank you to Sarah for taking some time to chat with me! She is truly a treasure to work with! Thank you once again to all the readers of this blog. Because of your great support I have been approved to continue to producing palatable legal and business content into and beyond the New Year!

From all of us at Epiphany, we hope you had a very Merry Christmas and we wish – but do not guarantee – you a Happy New Year!